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WHEN YOU SHOP for meals—whether or not produce or meat or eggs—and see a label that claims “natural,” what do you assume which means? At its most basic degree, I suppose I all the time thought it meant greens grown on the fields of an natural farm—like, within the soil, or animals raised in its pastures.
However more and more, as hydroponics have develop into extra widespread, soil isn’t all the time a part of the natural food-raising equation.
As we speak’s visitor is Linley Dixon, a Colorado-based natural farmer who can be co-director of the Actual Natural Challenge, an advocacy group of farmers who develop within the soil and collectively search to guard the integrity of the natural label’s which means on meals. Actual Natural Challenge is holding a daylong convention Oct.14 in Hudson, N.Y., with a fantastic lineup of presenters from the natural group, and we’ll hear about that, too.
Learn alongside as you take heed to the Oct. 2, 2023 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant under. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
the actual natural venture, with linley dixon
Margaret Roach: Hello, Linley, thanks for coming in from the greenhouses and the fields to assist and speak to me about this. Thanks.
Linley Dixon: Hello, Margaret. I’ve been a very long time fan of the podcast and your writings.
Margaret: Yeah. So once more, you’d assume I might know this stuff. Having been a vegetarian most of my life and having been a client of natural merchandise eternally and ever and so forth, you’d assume I would definitely be alerted. However till speaking to you over latest years, I actually didn’t perceive the distinctions. And that is one thing that’s not only for greens and herbs and so forth, however for pasture-raised animals, for even blueberries—blueberries might be accomplished with out soil. And so inform us somewhat about what Actual Natural Challenge is, and what the muse of it’s, and the way it received began. What was the impetus?
Linley: Positive. Proud to do it. At its coronary heart, it’s a farmer-led motion. So I’m the co-director with Vermont tomato farmer that you could be know of as a result of he’s nearer to you, Dave Chapman. He’s most likely among the best natural tomato farmers within the nation. And he grows tomatoes underneath about 2-1/2 acres of those Dutch-style glass greenhouses within the soil, which you need to differentiate now. You didn’t should underneath the Natural Customary. However in recent times—and he was the one which began to note this as a result of he actually does promote quite a lot of wholesale—he was competing with tomatoes that form of tasteless and mealy and discovered that they had been hydroponic.
And he thought, “Effectively, that’s a mistake.” And I really met him when he had raised the problem with a bunch of different farmers, principally in New England, nevertheless it was spreading throughout the nation that hydroponics was being allowed. And while you’re an natural farmer, you’re just about all consumed with the well being of your soil. And so this actually struck a chord with quite a lot of farmers throughout the nation. So I met him at these conferences the place we had been making an attempt to reform the natural program and ensure that natural stayed targeted on soil well being.
Margaret: Proper. As a result of as an natural gardener for many years, and in my writing and in my pondering, I consider that what you simply mentioned. I consider “feed the soil, not the plant,” that I’m constructing soil well being, and that’s the muse from whom all blessings movement. You understand what I imply? That’s the idea of the entire meals chain, the entire life chain, so to talk. So it surprises me that rising hydroponically can be natural. So the natural normal was what from the mid-’90s or one thing, the nationwide standards-
Linley: They wrote the regulation, the Natural Meals Manufacturing Act in 1990, nevertheless it took 10 years to really create requirements based mostly on that regulation, and it was a really democratic, farmer-led course of. And so there have been quite a lot of skeptical farmers at first, as a result of the USDA hasn’t all the time beloved or supported natural, they usually had been nervous at hand it over to them. However as a result of the method included this concept of a Nationwide Natural Requirements Board and there was going to be quite a lot of stakeholder suggestions within the course of, the farmers received on board. And it was in 2000 that they began implementing to form of the nationwide normal. In fact, there have been all the time these, and I’m positive in your space it’s the NOFAs and the MOFGAs, however there’s out west the CCOF; all of them had their very own requirements. And the concept was to have form of a typical throughout the nation that was the identical.
To make an extended story quick, I feel all of the farmers got here collectively across the hydroponic challenge. However there have been issues from the very starting, the place the USDA didn’t actually implement the requirements, although the regulation is a extremely good normal, the enforcement was missing from the very starting, principally round getting animals out on pasture. I imply, they had been certifying these large hen barns. And it’s to the purpose the place while you permit a decrease normal, it actually drives out the upper normal, simply because underneath the identical label, it’s a less expensive methodology of manufacturing.
Margaret: Proper. In fact. In fact. And so what you simply hinted at is that this isn’t simply hydroponic versus within the soil for vegetation, it’s additionally animals raised in barns, in buildings, primarily, enclosed, that aren’t pasture-raised. And so for these of us who love going to the native suppliers the place we reside and seeing it says that—I imply, the phrases was once issues like “free-range” or no matter, nevertheless it’ll say “pasture-fed” or no matter it says that makes you all the time assume, “Oh, that’s higher.” You’re keen to pay the premium worth as a result of you possibly can visualize that. And this, although a few of these animals, and the eggs from chickens, and among the meats and so forth might be labeled natural, the animals weren’t residing in that imagined idyllic for situation in any respect [laughter]. And but they’re natural.
Linley: And many individuals are shocked that we grew to become an add-on normal. It’s like if it’s gone so improper, why would we require natural certification first? However what we see with these different phrases, such as you talked about, issues like pasture or animal welfare, it’s like for those who don’t have a typical—it’s taking place to “regenerative” proper now—then it simply will get so simply co-opted. So there really is a extremely good regulation in place. And so the concept of making a typical can be the hope is to really apply strain for reform in order that we are able to save all this work that basically farmers have labored on over the course of their lifetime.
Margaret: So that you’re a farmer, you’ve been an natural farmer, you’re in Colorado, you increase greens. How large is your farm and the way lengthy have you ever been doing it? Any specialties? Is there something that you simply’re only a super-expert in [laughter]?
Linley: Effectively, Dave and I hit it off as a result of we’re each tomato farmers at our core. I imply, he began with oxen and each vegetable you possibly can think about, and actually specialised in tomatoes. However we nonetheless have many alternative crops on our farm. However Dave really mentored me within the final 5 years for the way to develop tomatoes higher in a greenhouse. And it actually modified the economics of our farm. And it’s one thing that I feel anyone can do really in the event that they study a number of little methods, whilst a house gardener, issues like grafting and even simply trellising so that you simply’re harvesting at eye degree, that transforms actually the benefit of the way to produce tomatoes, after which additionally simply whether or not or not they rot on the bottom or on the vegetation. In the event that they cut up, you actually can get double the yield fairly simply with some fundamental methods.
Margaret: So that you mentioned greenhouse and earlier than while you had been speaking about Dave Chapman’s operation, you mentioned greenhouse otherwise you mentioned… Really you didn’t name it greenhouses, you call-
Linley: Glass greenhouses.
Margaret: Glass greenhouses, proper. And so simply once more, so folks visualize, we’re speaking about on prime of soil, so it’s to manage different elements. And tomatoes specifically I feel have quite a lot of points—as everyone knows, who develop them [laughter]—with fungal illnesses and soil splash and spores shifting up the ladder of the leaves from the underside to the highest, and all types of issues. And I’m completely oversimplifying, however within the extra managed atmosphere that you simply’re describing, and it may even be a excessive tunnel, I suppose, a easy, not-greenhouse-but-greenhouse, we are able to management somewhat extra of that. And increasingly farmers have gone to that, and even a few of my backyard buddies have gone to that a minimum of making an attempt to attenuate among the havoc. The havoc.
Linley: Even one thing so simple as grafting will double your yields, and that you could really do. I do it with somewhat Johnny’s stand the place there’s a tent that goes over the seedling stand. And so a few of these methods are literally fairly simple to adapt by yourself gardens.
Margaret: So that you’re grafting the tomato, the number of tomato, you want to eat, to reap, onto a rootstock that’s sturdier and extra proof against issues. Is that what you’re doing?
Linley: Proof against issues, but in addition simply meant to develop actually large and robust.
Margaret: O.Ok. So each.
Linley: So the roots simply get a a lot greater space within the soil.
Margaret: Proper. In order a longtime natural farmer—and we each agreed that “feed the soil, not the plant” is the muse of natural agriculture, whether or not in a backyard setting or a farm setting. However are there different issues that you’d say to this viewers listening who’re residence gardeners principally, which might be the foundational rules that you simply observe that be just right for you? Whether or not the littler hints, like the particular one you simply spoke about, say grafting, or that you simply’re rising in a greenhouse, however different issues that you simply assume are actually foundational to success in natural rising?
Linley: Yeah. Dave all the time instructed me it’s not anyone tip, nevertheless it’s the end result of all of my information that makes this all work. However one that basically caught with me is he taught me to really use my compost functions by making use of them each two to a few weeks from a bucket [above]. Simply sprinkle the compost proper on prime of the drip strains (that’s how we irrigate our tomatoes, due to all that soil splash). Try this as a substitute of including all of the compost at first of the season, which could create an anaerobic atmosphere relying on how sizzling your compost is, however actually simply sprinkle it on prime of the drip strains. Each couple of weeks creates an excellent launch from the compost of vitamins. I bear in mind Eliot Coleman, who’s an advisor to our venture, and I received to satisfy him. He gave me the perfect definition of natural farming that I’ve ever heard, and it was so easy, so it simply actually caught.
He mentioned that “natural farming is so simple as including natural matter to the soil.” And I imply, that’s simply says all of it. as a result of if that’s taking place, you’re mitigating the necessity for any of those exterior fertilizers and even pest management, as a result of for those who’re taking note of the soil natural matter actually locks up and slow-releases vitamins. In order that means, I’m positive you’ve observed, Margaret, for those who apply an excessive amount of nitrogen, the aphids come, the bugs come. So that spotlight to how a lot, how slowly these vitamins are launched, that’s the prevention that natural farmers…
And there’s some insurance coverage in that natural matter that it’ll be launched over time. So you could have much more flexibility. You will get issues improper within the natural matter, form of adjustments it for you so it finally ends up understanding appropriately. I feel that definition, for those who can maintain that in thoughts, I imply it’s natural farming, the farming of carbon. Natural chemistry is the chemistry of carbon. So fascinated about all of that natural matter, that’s what natural farming is.
Margaret: So Eliot Coleman, you mentioned, and he’s an advisor to Actual Natural Challenge, and quite a lot of us gardeners know him from his actually necessary books, one of many early voices for natural, not simply farming-
Linley: For gardening.
Margaret: Sure, precisely. And to inform us about his techniques. And so he wrote actually, actually necessary works and has been an inspiration to many through the years. So no shock that he’s on board with this.
So that you mentioned you simply used the phrase “paying consideration,” and never in the identical means I’m going to ask you about it. However I additionally assume that’s one of many issues is that—and I exploit the expression “you possibly can’t set it and overlook it”—if you find yourself the steward of residing issues, you possibly can’t simply stick them within the floor or sow the seed after which stroll away and return at harvest time [laughter]. I feel vigilance is one other actually necessary talent and tactic of an natural grower, particularly who’s not going to have the ability to rush in with some “treatment,” some chemical treatment, if issues begin to go off. However watching I feel is admittedly necessary. And I assume that you’ve got a vigilance practice-
Linley: You do-
Margaret: … on the farm.
Linley: … otherwise you get in hassle, proper?
Margaret: Sure. So to me, that’s one other one of many issues.
Linley: I feel scale is an attention-grabbing challenge in natural. They’ve by no means actually restricted scale, however I feel inherently it’s scale-limiting as a result of we speak of as farmers, the eyes-to-acres ratio. You’ll be able to’t let the acreage get so large that for those who’re a standard farm and also you miss a pest outbreak within the nook of a subject 100 miles away or 100 acres away, you’re all proper, you possibly can simply go get a twig for that pest. However as an natural farmer, you don’t have that as form of a simple repair, so that you do, you need to verify.
We really had a whitefly outbreak this yr and we’ve by no means had that. And also you’ve received to catch it early they usually can take out a complete crop. And so we’ve received bio-control that’s a part of that course of. You set little sticky tape over the areas or proper within the areas the place you see the outbreak, and you need to get on it early. As a result of we even have totally different greenhouses, and a few of them are hoop homes and in our hoop home we missed it, and it took the crop out. And in our greenhouse, we had been in a position to catch it and use this bio-control course of.
So yeah, simply preserving on prime of it, we don’t have that simple repair, so we lose our crop if we miss it. And that’s a part of why biodiversity is so key, as a result of if we do lose one thing as a result of a very unhealthy yr for a pest, then actually, our enterprise doesn’t rely upon needing a twig. We will simply let that crop go, and it’s a very good yr for one thing else.
Margaret: Proper. Yeah. So, I imply, tomatoes, it sounds such as you’ve upped the sport and also you’ve discovered methods to get round among the main points with these, I really feel like… Are there different crops which might be necessary ones in your choices or is that the first driver of the enterprise?
Linley: That’s the one which actually makes all of it work, financially. However I’m experimenting as a result of within the greenhouses you possibly can’t develop your personal fertility, we actually rely upon compost for our fertility. However out within the fields, I’ve been experimenting recently with the way to have our aisles in order that they’re creating the fertility for the rows fcompostAnd that’s been actually enjoyable to look at, as a result of what’s occurred is the aisles have expanded somewhat bit extra, and our complete cropping method has modified. And what we do is we mow the aisles into the rows after which we’ll incorporate that “inexperienced manure” is what farmers name it, that form of cowl crop.
We incorporate that into the rows, however you don’t wish to mow them abruptly since you need a few of them to flower. And the bio-control that is available in on the flowering weeds from the aisles is fairly superior to look at.
So so long as you possibly can maintain that biology biking, that’s one thing that’s new on our farm that I’ve been form of obsessive about. As a result of for those who can develop your personal fertility on the farm, then you definitely don’t have to fret about any… You carry stuff in off the farm and it may need herbicide carryover, or there are environmental points with the place it was harvested or mined. So it’s form of the best degree of environmental stewardship is for those who can determine the way to develop your personal fertility on the farm. And I haven’t perfected it. I don’t know if I ever will, nevertheless it’s been enjoyable to attempt.
Margaret: That’s attention-grabbing. So that you’re in a way rising a few of your cowl crops, as you say, within the aisles in between the rows the place you or machines-
Linley: Stroll.
Margaret: … would stroll or drive. Attention-grabbing.
Linley: It’s lovely as a result of then the tractor wheels are all the time going over pasture on naked dust, so there’s resiliency there. However you additionally don’t lose any house actually to develop that fertility as a result of it’s really the place you’re strolling anyway, and also you don’t should weed it too. That’s a gorgeous factor.
Margaret: Attention-grabbing. So in doing the Actual Natural Challenge, do you discover that when you could have occasions—such as you’re having one really not removed from me in Columbia County New York in mid-October, which has a fantastic lineup of audio system and so forth. However do you discover that while you exit and also you current and speak to folks about Actual Natural Challenge, are there some astonished? Is it the identical couple of questions each time, or the identical aghast seems [laughter] about the identical side of it?
As a result of for me, one of many issues was, and I discussed it on the very starting shortly, the truth that blueberries had been being grown hydroponically—I imply, even woody vegetation, have you learnt what I imply? Even shrubs. As a result of to me, talking of useful bugs and having an atmosphere, a biodiverse atmosphere, I imply, blueberries, wow. These are a few of my helper vegetation right here within the backyard. They entice pollinators they usually simply do all types of fine issues apart from making blueberries [laughter].
Linley: Yeah. They reside most likely 40, 50 years. However we’ve a tremendous podcast. And so everyone is in a unique degree of understanding of those points. And so I might suggest listening to that podcast for those who’re confused by this and wish to perceive it higher. And Hugh Kent, who’s a blueberry farmer, he has a few them. His most up-to-date was a chat at Eco Farm, and really for those who can watch that one, as a result of you possibly can see his slides, it’s fairly surprising the environmental influence of those hydroponic farms. And so they’re actually plastic, on plastic, on plastic, these large sandwiches, and all of the fertility is coming in.
After which the vegetation are accomplished in 4 to 5 years, your entire plastic farm will get thrown out, after which they begin it over once more. So the environmental influence is fairly extreme, and it’ll provide help to perceive the way in which an natural farmer thinks. We interview quite a lot of farmers, however there’s cooks and authors on there, too. It simply helps you assume extra holistically how natural farmers are fascinated about their farm. And it would provide help to perceive why issues like grazing and soil well being are so necessary to us.
Margaret: Yeah. So you could have, what, possibly 1,200 farms who’re members of the Actual Natural Challenge at this level all in several areas of the nation, is that proper?
Linley: Yeah. And these are farmers which might be agreeing to a different inspection on prime of the USDA inspection that’s a part of this program. In order that’s fairly astonishing to see how shortly it’s grown in such a short while. Farmers get this, they perceive the necessity for this. [Below, the USDA organic label, and the Real Organic Project one each require a separate inspection.]
Margaret: I needed to ask you extra about that. So I feel on the convention in October, you’ll do one of many shows, and I feel you’re going to speak about form of what units these member farmers aside and the way can shoppers help them, and help the work of this group. So inform us somewhat bit concerning the spotlight reel of that a part of the convention.
Linley: Yeah. I feel most individuals would simply wish to hear what we’re guaranteeing for those who search for this sticker. And so we did speak concerning the soil well being and pasturing, however we additionally make sure that the entire farm is assembly these natural, these greater natural practices, as a result of there may be quite a lot of fraud that occurs when you could have a cut up operation, when you could have some standard manufacturing and a few natural. And one of many greatest ones, there was just some acres of natural manufacturing that had an natural seal, after which quite a lot of standard stuff went by means of that natural certificates. So the entire farm must be natural.
There are employee welfare protections. So that is actually simply form of pushing the bar ahead. Actually when the farmers stopped being concerned and simply handed it over to the USDA, that complete idea of steady enchancment underneath the seal that we actually had with our regional chapters went away. So we’re simply making an attempt to carry that again, and proceed to enhance over time.
Margaret: And non-farmers—how do shoppers interact with Actual Natural Challenge? I imply, I assume it’s a nonprofit, so that you most likely have donors, and do folks simply attend your occasions and help these farmers and-
Linley: We’ve received this nice web site, so go to the web site. You’ll be able to see the convention that’s at Churchtown Dairy on October 14th, very first thing. After which we’re really releasing a brand new web site in a couple of month, however you possibly can go now. There’s a ton of movies, podcasts, the letters. We’ve one thing referred to as Actual Associates the place it’s a guide membership, however a part of this group is to ask eaters to assist the farmers alongside. And which may imply simply telling your pals about your favourite podcast episodes, or going to your co-op and saying, “Do you could have any Actual Natural merchandise?” In order that hopefully your farmers domestically can get somewhat little bit of an edge as a result of they’re actually having hassle getting markets and the worth level is so low, so you possibly can assist them out by requesting actual natural merchandise in your shops too.
Margaret: You’re in Colorado, and what zone are you technically, the place you farm?
Linley: Oh gosh, there are such a lot of microclimates. So I might say we’re a 6-something, nevertheless it is dependent upon the yr, and local weather adjustments creating all types of adjustments.
Margaret: It’s. It’s.
Linley: So I don’t even know anymore.
Margaret: Yeah. So that you talked about tomatoes. So are you winding down your season or do you do off season crops as effectively? Do you have-
Linley: So the humorous factor right here is definitely it doesn’t get actually within the single digits so far as chilly, however our season’s actually quick, as a result of we’re excessive elevation. So we received our first frost most likely this weekend. It’s all the time across the third week of September. And our final frost is, oh gosh, in the midst of June typically. So we’ve a couple of 90-day window, which is wow.
Margaret: Wow!
Linley: And we get these form of passing hailstorms too as a result of that’s what occurs within the mountains. In order that’s why I’ve all of those totally different ranges of tunnels. And even out within the subject, we’ve quite a lot of Reemay and methods to guard the crops on the sector.
Margaret: Attention-grabbing. Effectively, Linley Dixon, co-director of the Actual Natural Challenge, thanks for giving us a 101 on this topic. Very, very counterintuitive to assume that natural doesn’t imply grown within the soil, however thanks for alerting us to that. And I hope I’ll speak to you once more quickly.
Linley: Thanks a lot, Margaret,
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